©Reuters. Pope Francis shakes hands with Volodymyr Zelenskiy, in the Vatican, May 13, 2023. Vatican Media via REUTERS
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By Filippo Pullella
ROME (Reuters) – Pope Francis said in an interview that Ukraine should have what he called “white flag” courage and negotiate an end to the war with Russia that followed Moscow’s full-scale invasion two years ago and which killed tens of thousands.
Francis made his comments in an interview recorded last month with Swiss broadcaster RSI, well before Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan’s latest offer on Friday to host a summit between Ukraine and Russia to end the war.
Erdogan made the new offer after a meeting in Istanbul with his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskiy. Zelenskiy said that while he wants peace, he will not give up any territory.
The Ukrainian leader’s peace plan includes the withdrawal of Russian troops from all of Ukraine and the restoration of state borders. The Kremlin has ruled out starting peace talks on the conditions established by Kiev.
A spokesperson for Zelenskiy did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the pope’s remarks.
In the interview, Francis was asked for his point of view on the debate between those who say that Ukraine should surrender because it was unable to repel Russian forces, and those who say that this would legitimize the action of the stronger party. The interviewer used the term “white flag” in the question.
“It’s an interpretation, that’s true,” Francis said, according to an advance transcript of the interview and partial video made available to Reuters on Saturday. It is due to be broadcast on March 20 as part of a new cultural programme.
“But I think the strongest is the one who looks at the situation, thinks about the people and has the courage of the white flag and negotiates,” Francis said, adding that talks should take place with the help of international powers.
«The word negotiate is a courageous word. When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you must have the courage to negotiate,” Francis said.
It is believed to be the first time Francis has used terms such as “white flag” or “defeated” when talking about the war in Ukraine, although he has previously spoken of the need for negotiations.
Last year the 87-year-old pope sent a peace envoy, Italian Cardinal Matteo Zuppi, to Kiev, Moscow and Washington to sound out the leaders of those countries.
“One can be ashamed – said Francis regarding the negotiation – but with how many deaths will it end? (We should) negotiate in time, find a country that can be a mediator”, said Francis, referring to Turkey. among the countries that had offered.
“Don’t be ashamed to negotiate before things get worse,” said Francis, who has launched hundreds of appeals for what he calls “martyred Ukraine.” When asked if he was willing to mediate, Francis replied: “I am here.”
In another part of the interview, speaking about the war between Israel and Hamas, Francis said: “Negotiating is never a surrender.”
Last month Zelenskiy said that 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed since the Russian invasion in February 2022 and that tens of thousands of civilians had been killed in occupied areas of the country.